tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8188928860839653471.post3683602274845032414..comments2023-09-26T05:18:08.074-06:00Comments on Cafe of the Cosmic Dance: Rape and the Madness of CrowdsPaul Sunstonehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02462598852553696040noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8188928860839653471.post-41640329345706636962011-12-13T14:53:14.033-07:002011-12-13T14:53:14.033-07:00Sledpress -- I think you're right that some me...Sledpress -- I think you're right that some men simply cannot understand why women would not want to have sex with them. In fact, I believe I meet men like that every now and then. They are certainly not in the majority of my acquaintances, but they never fail to amaze and disturb me.Paul Sunstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02462598852553696040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8188928860839653471.post-3820104334294548622011-12-12T21:37:30.777-07:002011-12-12T21:37:30.777-07:00Paul -- I'm not at all surprised about that Kr...Paul -- I'm not at all surprised about that Krishnamurti story. Bureaux of Investigation and the like are composed of people who fear "loners." Isn't that the quintessential FBI narrative -- the identification and neutralization of someone who separates from the herd? In that myth, all us loners are the Unabomber.<br /><br />Re: Likable rapists. I believe there are some men who are good at making themselves likable and invest a lot of energy in it, to the point they just can't BELIEVE that a woman wouldn't want to have sex with them. So they go ahead and make her do it over her expressed objections, like your annoying Aunt Matilda who tells you how much she knows you'll love her rhubarb torte. In a corollary mythology the penis is a magic wand that can fix everything -- chronic pain, grief, a bad day at the office. Seriously. I suspect that the channeling of all male emotionality into sexual behavior (which is the only acceptable form of emotion in a certain paradigm of male character) contributes a lot to rape.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8188928860839653471.post-87647013883078742802011-12-12T17:10:09.899-07:002011-12-12T17:10:09.899-07:00Wise Fool -- PrairieNymph's essay strikes me a...Wise Fool -- PrairieNymph's essay strikes me as quite insightful. And I think you are right to be reminded of it by the Swedish case. Surely, the fact the rapist was likeable played a significant role in the fact so many people denied he could have committed the crimes. That's a very good point.<br /><br />I am also intrigued by your insight that social media has expanded the scope of the "lynch mob". I had not thought of that, but you're right. Today, we see whole internet mobs coming down on people -- often for slight reasons.<br /><br />Last, I do not know what else we can do about our human tendency to follow the crowd other than to be prepared to be jerked now and then in that direction. And that is what is so frightening -- there is no absolute insurance that we ourselves will not become the mob.Paul Sunstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02462598852553696040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8188928860839653471.post-26573614700951889432011-12-12T17:00:56.168-07:002011-12-12T17:00:56.168-07:00Ahab -- I think you are right that the issue is no...Ahab -- I think you are right that the issue is not to deny or try to change human nature, but rather to work within its confines in order to bring out the best in us.<br /><br />Once again, I am reminded of how wise you are.Paul Sunstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02462598852553696040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8188928860839653471.post-82749366845131656682011-12-12T16:59:28.285-07:002011-12-12T16:59:28.285-07:00Sledpress -- You've given me so much to think ...Sledpress -- You've given me so much to think about! For instance: Your remark that humans demonize those of us who prefer our own company. I think that is largely true -- and it reminds me of when Jiddu Krishnamurti discovered that he was being investigated by the FBI for no better reason than they were suspicious of the hours long daily walks he was accustomed to taking alone!<br /><br />Again, I agree with your point that the anonymity of crowds can make people feel it is safe to vent their anger and madness. That strikes me as something that might have been going on in the Swedish case.<br /><br />Thank you for some very interesting input!Paul Sunstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02462598852553696040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8188928860839653471.post-12470546900190227362011-12-11T20:02:24.894-07:002011-12-11T20:02:24.894-07:00I'm stunned in disgust. What a horrible situa...I'm stunned in disgust. What a horrible situation. And he went on to rape another girl too, according to the report. And the community reacted the same way. Wow.<br /><br />As I try to make some sense of this, I can't help but think of a recent post by PrairieNymth called <a href="http://prairienymph.wordpress.com/2011/11/11/rapists-are-not-monsters/" rel="nofollow">Rapests Are Not Monsters</a>. Essentially, she points out how rapist are, for lack of better word, romanticized into a highly characterized, vile and evil person. So when the rapist comes in the form of a popular young man who is full of youthful charm, we have a hard time processing it. Our prejudices fight against the facts, and instead of opening to the reality that anyone could be a rapist, we turn on the victim. We say she said yes and then changed her story, or that she led him on, or that she deserved it, or that she was trying to attack her attacker's reputation for vengeance or some other purpose.<br /><br />With rape being so repugnant, the thought of someone falsely accusing someone of rape strikes us on a fundamental nerve, possibly even more so than rape itself. When you are playing with emotions of that polarity and depth, you are playing with dynamite. I think I can see how the mob mentality you suggest (which no longer requires an actual physical concentration of people, thanks to social media) could bring about these disastrous results.<br /><br />It's scary, because I'm not so sure I, or anyone else, could always resist when these core emotional strings are pulled. I guess our best defense is to be weary of any situation where we have a strong negative emotional response, to be sure we have the facts before we commit to an action.TWFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06016277303703254572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8188928860839653471.post-42618290427459690582011-12-11T19:34:40.753-07:002011-12-11T19:34:40.753-07:00This crosses paths with a thought that occurred to...This crosses paths with a thought that occurred to me last night: is the human instinct to demonize those of us who prefer our own company, and shun crowd dynamics, some sort of limbic identification of loners with predators? Most prey species herd together, most predators isolate within a certain range of territory. It was just a random thought, but it arose from a lifetime of bitterness about being misconstrued and genuinely villainized for preferring my own company and, worse in the public estimation, severely mistrusting any viewpoint presented to me as that of the majority. I just always knew somehow that this tendency to groupthink was dangerous; I remember reading a piece on the subject in Reader's Digest, of all things, called "The Cruel Crowd," and thinking: "This describes the school that I have to go to every day."<br /><br />I suspect that part of the problem, beyond a merely evolutionary bias, is that people find it safe to vent their own anger and meanness in a crowd situation and then step aside from owning it. The lure of this must be intense for exactly those people who want to believe that only other groups or nations have evil thoughts. Jung and the Shadow, und so weiter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8188928860839653471.post-42593609253954686862011-12-11T10:44:31.769-07:002011-12-11T10:44:31.769-07:00It sickens me when innocent people are victimized ...It sickens me when innocent people are victimized and "the crowd" goes along with evil instead of doing what's right. <br /><br />If humans are inclined to go along with "the crowd" to do evil, then we must figure out how to get them to go along with "the crowd" to do good.Ahabhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14675629709031865432noreply@blogger.com